The May 2010 Euthanasia Prevention Coalition Newsletter can now be found at: http://www.euthanasiaprevention.on.ca/Newsletters/Newsletter108(May2010)(RGB).pdf Bill C-384 was soundly defeated by a vote of 228 to 59. Check how the Members of Parliament voted at: http://www.euthanasiaprevention.on.ca/HowTheyVoted.pdf On June 5, 2010, we are co-hosting the US/Canda Push-Back Seminar at the Radisson Gateway Hotel at the Seattle/Tacoma Airport. The overwhelming defeat of Bill C-384 proved that we can Push-Back the euthanasia lobby in the US and Canada and convince people that euthanasia and assisted suicide are a dangerous public policy. Register for the Seminar at: http://www.euthanasiaprevention.on.ca/2010SeminarFlyer(RGB)(LetterFormat).pdf The Schindler family are being attacked by a Florida television station and Michael Schiavo. The Euthanasia Prevention Coalition is standing in solidarity with the Schindler family. My blog comments: http://alexschadenberg.blogspot.com/2010/05/att
Reflections from the pastoral ministry of an Evangelical Catholic Priest.
Well, I've been stewing over this article, waiting for someone else to say something, and no one is saying a word. So here goes:
ReplyDeleteIt's not the pornography that's the problem; it's the unaccommodated diveristy of interests.
The same alienation would happen if one of them were "addicted" to Internet chat and the other did not like Internet chat to the point where there is no compromise.
And it would be the same if one of them loved dogs and wanted one for a pet and the other was afraid of dogs and couldn't stand to have them around.
It's not about pornography. If they both liked porn, there would be no problem. It's about the utter inability, not to say unwillingness, to see life from the other's POV.
Lady Janus, we share similar views.
ReplyDeleteI was told by priests and nuns that oral sex was a big mortal sin in marriage. If I did this oral sex stuff with my husband he was doomed & so was I. It was my fault I was putting his soul in jeopardy.
In time I realized it was me listening to those ignorant fools that help me formed to think oral sex was wrong.
Men, (not all men) turn to porn because of the hang ups their wives have on oral sex.
Now that my husband and I are both advance in years with all those body aches, pains, some cancer(remission), heart & other health problems. Oral sex is not top on our priority list.
Those priests & nuns so busy working on cutting down their own purgatory time & wanting me to do the same.
These priests & nuns that dished out that bull to me years ago I hope they are in that part of purgatory for those souls that are there to the END of TIME!
Anon, I've heard about that prohibition so often, that, a few years ago, I asked for an explanation of it, since Catholics (of my acquaintance, anyway) are told that there is no such thing as "wrong" sex between married partners. And it turned out that everyone was only half right because no one was explaining it properly.
ReplyDeleteWhat I was told was this: oral sex is fine if it is used as foreplay, but not if it is the ONLY sexual act. The church wants every sexual act to be "open to children," meaning, having the possibility of the woman's getting pregnant. And she cannot get pregnant with only oral sex.
Mind you, that was several years ago in another province, and if something has changed (or I got it wrong), perhaps Tim would step in with any updates...
Thats ironic. Two women defending an industry that degrades and objectifies them to little more than toys for men's pleasure.
ReplyDeleteCheers
Paul
"Two women defending an industry that degrades and objectifies them to little more than toys for men's pleasure." by Paul
ReplyDeleteI said SOME men MAY look at porn PAUL because they are not having ORAL with their wives.
Did YOU ever think women enjoy ORAL SEX also Paul? Or you believe sex should be just to have babies?
People like you think sex is dirty. I blame the history of the Catholic Church for that.
Remember Paul....don't knock it until you tried it, If you do not like it don't do it!
Paul writes: "Thats ironic. Two women defending an industry that degrades and objectifies them to be (sic) little more than toys for men's pleasure."
ReplyDeleteReply: That's ironic. A man who supports a religious institution that devalues and marginalizes women, is mocking two women who are discussing sexuality and porn.
People get off on all kinds of things. I don't particularly care to discuss what gets you off. Thats not the topic of the story. Its whether porn can be detrimental to a marriage. I say yes and there are lots of broken marriages, sexual assaults, abused women and children to back that up. Its toxic to the culture.
ReplyDeleteWhen you strip the dignity of your spouse or others and view them as little more than a receptacle for your sexual gratification, the wheels fall off the cart rather quickly. I recall hearing the testimony of a guy who was addicted to porn and he describes how he actually came to prefer porn to relations with his wife. It got to the point he needed to fantasize about the porn he was viewing to enjoy the sex he was actually having with his wife. His appetites became more twisted and bizarre the more he engaged in it. Thankfully he found help for his addiction.
How women can defend porn is perplexing since they're its greatest victims.
Cheers
Paul
Paul
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying those things you described does not happen to some people in their marriage & breaks them up & causes other bad things.
Not everything is black & white. They are many gray areas.
I live this experience with my own husband. At the beginning of our marriage he did buy those magazines & caught him watching porn on TV late at night(he rented). Also all those verbal innuendos I did put up with, like he would say:
"This hand vacuum cleaner doesn't work, it wouldn't give a decent blow job on an ant!"
It was awful. There were days I cried & wish I wasn't a virgin when I got married.
That was the problem in my marriage ORAL SEX issues stemming from what I was told it was a mortal sin & dirty.
I had to do something, I was finding excuses not to go to bed. Wait he would fall asleep. That is not a good sign.
I finally grew up & did talk to him about the why I did not want to do the oral sex. Things started to changed. The need to buy the magazines & watch porn was going gone. I'm talking about a healthy marriage. A mature loving relationship. When one loves their mate deeply they will not hurt them by asking to do something that is not right or good for them. They TALK about it. That was my problem, I did not talk to him about it. I learned he's NO MIND READER.
He thought I did not love him enough etc... but once he understood how scared I was for my soul & his, & the other stuff about the priests & nuns then things started to get way better. I wasn't as uptight & there was no fear sharing the marriage bed with him.
We are still married for almost 40yrs.
So glad I spoke up or I could had easily been another broken marriage statistic.
"Two women defending an industry that degrades and objectifies them to little more than toys for men's pleasure."
ReplyDeleteWhoa! there, boyo!
First, no one is "defending" anything. The porn industry does not need us to defend it.
Second, YOU don't get to tell ANYONE else what "degrades them or "objectifies" them. If you feel degraded or objectified, deal with it. But don't you dare overstep your bounds and tell a woman she's a victim when clearly she is not.
Third, just as many women indulge in and use pornography as men do. It's a sexual aid, like sex toys, music, fabrics, scents, wine, food, and any number of other things. Matter of fact, couples who build their own personal collections tend to have extremely tight and tamper-proof marriages.
So, no, pornography is not automatically a danger to marriages. As I said to begin with, it's the drastic imbalance in interests that do the harm.
Second, YOU don't get to tell ANYONE else what "degrades them or "objectifies" them. If you feel degraded or objectified, deal with it. But don't you dare overstep your bounds and tell a woman she's a victim when clearly she is not.
ReplyDeleteObjectified
• degrade to the status of a mere object
So do you think all those guys typing with one hand on the keyboard are admiring the ladies for their intellect and personality?
The lady on her back may be deluded to think she's not being degraded or objectified (some claim it empowers them) but the reality is that the men that are on top of her or one hand typing have absolutely no interest in her intelligence, her personality, her dignity or anything else beyond her flesh. She's little more than an object for their pleasure.
I'll agree though that porn doesn't automatically equate to a destroyed marriage. I never claimed it does. I personally know people that have used it for years and remain married. However, the fact they are still married doesn't mean it hasn't negatively affected the relationship either. Without knowing their most intimate thoughts and actions, one cannot judge how its affected them.
Cheers
Paul
"Matter of fact, couples who build their own personal collections tend to have extremely tight and tamper-proof marriages."
ReplyDeleteIs this a matter of opinion or fact? If its fact, are their studies to support this statement?
Cheers
Paul
"First, no one is "defending" anything. The porn industry does not need us to defend it. "
ReplyDeleteWhoa! there, lady!
Your Third point does just that. Obviously you're defending porn or we wouldn't be having this debate.
Cheers
Paul
Paul knows personally some people that used porn for years? I will not go there?
ReplyDeleteThat is still not all married couples. As you were saying Paul: "...one cannot judge how its affected them."
Exactly!
You may be using this porn issue to side step a problem about SEX in general?
Did it ever occur to you some of these men especially ages ago like in my own husband's case, that's where they learned about SEX.
Sex was not easily talk about as it is today.
"Paul knows personally some people that used porn for years? I will not go there?"
ReplyDeleteNot sure what you're trying to say here Lina?
u"That is still not all married couples. As you were saying Paul: "...one cannot judge how its affected them."
Exactly! "
right, but we know from the testimony of marriage therapists and couples that do share their thoughts and actions that it can be destructive.
"You may be using this porn issue to side step a problem about SEX in general? "
Thanks for you concern for my sex life but its fantastic. You may be bringing this up to side step the issue.
"Did it ever occur to you some of these men especially ages ago like in my own husband's case, that's where they learned about SEX.
Sex was not easily talk about as it is today."
EXACTLY!! We agree that people learn about sex from porn and that hasn't changed, even in our hypersexualized generation. Its what porn is teaching men, women and children about sexuality, there in lies the problem.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1141485/A-clicks-mouse-internet-porn-destroys-middle-class-marriage-.html
Cheers
Paul
"The lady on her back may be deluded to think she's not being degraded or objectified (some claim it empowers them) but the reality is that the men that are on top of her or one hand typing have absolutely no interest in her intelligence, her personality, her dignity or anything else beyond her flesh. She's little more than an object for their pleasure."
ReplyDeleteWell, "the lady" may not be on her back. She may be riding tall, complete with spurs and a quirt! But when did your your opinion get so all-powerful that it completely overwhelms the opinions of those directly involved? Better get off that horse, Paul, it's too high for you.
The enjoyment of sex is NOT about personality, intellect, or -- horror of horrors -- "dignity" or "respect." Matter of fact, when you're engaged in sexual activity, if you're think about dignity or respect, you're not completely engaged. And maybe that's the problem. Unfortunately, it's also your partner's problem. She doesn't want dignity -- she wants an orgasm; and trust me, there is NO "dignity" in an orgasm!
As for being "an object for their pleasure," that works both ways. Everybody's partner is an object for their pleasure, man or woman. That's what sex is.
"Without knowing their most intimate thoughts and actions, one cannot judge how its affected them."
Then why does everyone who doesn't like it always default to the negative when it comes to others' choices? Like you just did.
"Obviously you're defending porn or we wouldn't be having this debate."
Wrong. I'm defending the choices of others to indulge in whatever they want or need in order to enhance their sex lives. If it's porn, so be it. If it's prayer, then that, too. It's up to the people involved, though, and no one else. YOU do not get to choose for anyone else.
And back to the topic: No, porn is not the problem any more than anything else by itself is not the problem. Marriages are threatened by all kinds of things, including whether or not to allow the dog up on the furniture or the cat into the bedroom at night. If the two people in a marriage cannot agree on some basic things, then the marriage is doomed, with porn, without it, or with a royal charter!
Comparing porn to a dog on the couch is laughable. I'm sure there are many women and men that would gladly trade the problems created by their perverted spouse for your couch dog.
ReplyDeleteCheers
Paul
Anonymous that calls himself Paul who could be a Paula a far as I know.
ReplyDeleteYou are so confused or paranoid you even gave me the name Lina.
I don't give a rat A$$ about your so call sex life.
Those who cry foul the loudest usually has something that is bothering them or have something to hide.
Stella
Stella
ReplyDeleteIf you had put a name to your post, it would have avoided the confusion. Lina is a regular poster on here and your wording sounded like her postings in the past and I thought you were her. Sorry to both you and Lina for the mistake.
If you don't care about my sex life then maybe you should stop trying to make it an issue in this debate. I really have no desire to talk about it with you either.
Cheers
Paul
I understand about the confusion. I found this place from the National Post site.
ReplyDeleteI read comments from this Moyle priest I thought he was a phony. I was wrong.
Stella
"Comparing porn to a dog on the couch is laughable."
ReplyDeleteYou're the only one trying to do that, Paul. If you had bothered to actually READ what I said, you would understand -- as others have done -- that the dog on the couch was simply another example of two people having unyielding and opposing opinions about a thing to the point that it endangers their marital relationship.
And if you think having an appreciation for pornography is perverted, then be careful you don't enter into an emotional relationship with someone who likes it just fine. It's the INABILITY TO ACCEPT THE DIFFERENCES that can break a relationship.
Sex is for procreation and family bonding. Porn discourages it. Bringing the child to the world is just the beginning. Raising the child properly requires a healthy and wholesome family. Porn put orgasm as the highest priority in life and immediate gratification first, while sex is not just a pleasure, but commitment to take care of the child in a family within a marriage. Of course, you can avoid bringing a child to the world by using condom and that does not help with ensuring human survival in the end.
ReplyDelete