Too bad the 'good Father' didn't remember his vow of obedience and RESPECT to the Bishops! It will be interesting to see if any consequences come to him for his outspokenness. It seems that in Quebec it's OK to attack the Church from the left... just don't try doing it in the name of orthodoxy!
Socon or Bust » Blog Archive » Dissenting priest goes to war against Archbishop Prendergast over D&P
Socon or Bust » Blog Archive » Dissenting priest goes to war against Archbishop Prendergast over D&P
Hi Tim,
ReplyDeleteI find your comments perplexing. You state that one may not "attack the Church" from the right without being censored or silenced.
Do you believe that all internal disagreement or dissent is wrong?
If no dissent is allowed with your Church, how is change ever to come about, or is change unnnecessary?
Is dissent not a precursor to dialogue and discussion? Is not such a thing healthy for any institution?
Do you have any evidence to support your assertion that dissent from the right is actively censored or silenced within your Church?
From where I sit, the Church has steadily moved to the right and I see little that impedes this movement - except for the most extreme expressions of facism (e.g. anti Semetic comments from senior clerics). Opus Dei, SSPX, and other movements all indicate to me that the holy mother Church is indeed a very welcoming petri dish for right wing ideas and conformity.
Socon's 'durm und strang' over this outburst of conscience from a few low level clerics looks like so much posturing by the dominant right to protray itself as a "victim". The right is firmly in control of the apparatus of the Church and it is laughable for you guys to suggest otherwise.
I have every confidence that you will successfuly crush this minor pocket of dissent.
In any case, I appreciate your responses to my questions.
Cheers...Martin
Martin:
ReplyDeleteFirst off... Happy Easter!!
1. No, internal disagreement is not wrong.
2. Yes, dissent can be a precursor to dialogue and discussion. It can also lead to heresy and error.
3. Sure! Sites like SoCon or Lifesitenews get into trouble for challenging the church from the right. Remember though, my comment was dealing with the Quebec situation alone and not the church universal. I know of some priests who have been (sometimes properly) chastised by their Bishop for being too zealous in their orthodoxy.
4. I don't see the Church moving to the right. I've gotten to know a number of folks in Opus Dei and they are certainly not 'right wingers' - aside from their liturgical preferences. Most of them though do not actually like the mass in Latin.
5. The priests that SoCon is dealing with are not 'low level' clerics. One of them was a Bloc MP and is very well known throughout the province due to his many media appearances. That one priest is suing SoCon for $100,000's of dollars for doing nothing more than reposting his statements. He doesn't deny that what they posted were his words... but he is accusing them of persecuting him and maligning him in public. How does one libel someone else by simply repeating the words of that person?
6. If there is one thing that the Church does not have it's firm control of the public pronouncements of various clergy. NOTE: This is as it should be...so long as they are not leading people out of the Church.
7. I always appreciate your questions!
Tim
P.S. Offer of the use of the cottage stands. Just let me know if you want to take me up on the offer at your earliest convenience as I do let other folks make use of the place as well.
Hi Tim,
ReplyDeleteOne of the problems with this discussion is defining what one means by "left" and "right" in the context of the Church. I don't think these terms can be simply translated from a political context to a religious one.
In a religious context, I would define "left" as being open to new information and facts derived from modern thought, methods and human experience, while "right" would be defined as being closed to anything except a literal biblical or traditional interpretation of spiritual/moral/ethical questions. You may have a different set of definitions - and accordingly, you may see your Church much differently than I do.
Assuming my definitions, the movement in your Church is definitely to the right. Anyone who would describe themselves as "progressive" or "modern" feels less and less welcome in what remains of your Church.
As for Socon's battles with a libel suit, I do not follow his blog closely enough to care one way or the other. In Ontario, even quoting someone out of context, with the intent to malign, can be considered libelous.
Have a good Easter celebration.
Cheers...Martin