The May 2010 Euthanasia Prevention Coalition Newsletter can now be found at: http://www.euthanasiaprevention.on.ca/Newsletters/Newsletter108(May2010)(RGB).pdf Bill C-384 was soundly defeated by a vote of 228 to 59. Check how the Members of Parliament voted at: http://www.euthanasiaprevention.on.ca/HowTheyVoted.pdf On June 5, 2010, we are co-hosting the US/Canda Push-Back Seminar at the Radisson Gateway Hotel at the Seattle/Tacoma Airport. The overwhelming defeat of Bill C-384 proved that we can Push-Back the euthanasia lobby in the US and Canada and convince people that euthanasia and assisted suicide are a dangerous public policy. Register for the Seminar at: http://www.euthanasiaprevention.on.ca/2010SeminarFlyer(RGB)(LetterFormat).pdf The Schindler family are being attacked by a Florida television station and Michael Schiavo. The Euthanasia Prevention Coalition is standing in solidarity with the Schindler family. My blog comments: http://alexschadenberg.blogspot.com/2010/05/att
Reflections from the pastoral ministry of an Evangelical Catholic Priest.
For a 2000 years, the faithful were told that priests were special. Then they were proved not to be. Priests were not portrayed by the church as the same as teachers, mailmen or police officers, were they? To make such a defense now is weak and stupid.
ReplyDeleteYou can't take that back and now claim that priests weren't any different than anyone else.
The church may go forward but will do so as a much different entity.
Priests maybe forgiven but forgiveness is hot the same as trust or love.
Prof. Dawkins is not defending the molesting of children. He was only commenting that at one point in his school career a teacher, who later killed himself, groped him. While he found it disgusting, he says didn't scar him for life and is not wanting to claim victim hood status because of much more serious actions that were committed against many more children in his school and others. He's not condoning that teacher's actions, only putting it in the horrible context of that time, when actions like that were common. Fortunately we have zero tolerance for such activities now.
ReplyDeleteRationalist: As a former child protection worker with the CAS in my early years I am well aware of how such matters were dealt with back then. Trust me, something as invasive as what Dawkins suffered would have resulted in charges even back then.
ReplyDeleteThe point I'm trying to make is that what he described from his childhood is identical to what the majority of priests convicted of sex abuse did. I trust you understand that I am not in any way trying to minimize or legitimize the crimes committed by clerics. Rather I'm asking then why he condemns the behavior on the one hand as he demonizes the Church and clergy as being criminals and deviants to the point that it should be designated a 'criminal organization', and on the other hand, while admitting that sexual molestation was as rampant in English boarding schools but such malfeasance is to be seen with forgiveness and understanding?
Do you not agree that Dawkins (and by extension many others) is(are) hypocritical in espousing two interpretations for the same offense? What logic of rational Scientism explains the reasoning behind that paradox which makes any sense? None I read or heard about.
Even at the face of it he discredits both his opinions of the Church and the teaching profession by claiming it's an essentially harmless happenstance in the life of many adolescents yet a devastating person apocalypse for which all the gold of the Vatican should be melted down and given to victims of criminal clergy. What? Were kids that went to Catholic Churches and schools somehow emotionally or psychically enfeebled that rendered them so fragile? Or is it the anyone who graduates from the British private school system is so superior? There's more than a 'sniff of orange' in that argument since the logical conclusion is that you and I (as cradle Catholics) are inferior to Anglican private school graduates. I'd be willing to put that to the test anywhere or any time! (grin)
And he calls believers irrational and biased??
If this is indicative of the mettle of his mind, I think it's safe to suggest that his reputation exceeds his abilities. Either one of us could kick his ass! (LOL)
Fr. Tim
Hope that makes sense. Small screen. Fat fingers. Weak mind!!!
DeleteFr. Tim
No Problem. Prof. Dawkins is outspoken on the issue of sexual abuse, but saves most of his vitriol; for the hierarchy who were complicit in the cover-up.
DeleteI think the point he was trying to make in his admission that he was abused as a youth, in a lessor way as compared to many others, is that it was disgusting but didn't ruin his life. I think that's an important point to make. While not condoning any abusive action, it should not psychologically damage one for like. Everyone is different and victims of more horrific attacks bear physiological scars that affect them for years or a lifetime, but sometimes one cane move on from it.
I don't share his view of temporal relativism, that actions of the past can't be judge by modern standards. Actions like caning, slavery, child abuse were always wrong, it's just that morals had not progressed to such a stage to understand it. There are undoubtedly actions that we as a society partake in that in a few hundred years will be seen as abhorrent. It's just a question as to what they are.
To me, the difference is that a priest has the power of Heaven or hell. At least in the child's mind. A teacher doesn't claim to represent God here on Earth the way a priest represents God. Anyone who molests a child belongs in jail.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous, I would add the foolish chit-chat that goes on in this blog, between the Priest and the atheist, is as asinine as the Dawkins blather.
DeleteI wonder where all the good Priests have gone.
Puzzled: Go to any Catholic Church on Sunday and you will find more good priests than your heart could desire. You might even find some folk there who search the services of those same good priests to confess their sin of harshly judging others and damning those who believe differently than themselves much as a pharisee viewed a leper. Instead of following Pope Francis and B16's example and reaching out to brothers and sisters of different convictions, admitting our own faults and failings as proof that folks like Rationalist are no better nor worse that themselves when seen from God's perspective, they chose instead to treat others as being impure and unworthy of considerations or respect. Any of this seem familiar to you?
DeleteJust saying...
Fr. Tim
You are so full of it, you are a poor example of a Catholic Priest. When I go to Confession, which is quite often, I tell all of my sins, not just the ones that get me through it. Sound familiar?
DeletePuzzled: No. It doesn't.
DeleteFr. Tim
Fr Moyle, just look up Aug. 23, 2013. Antigonish Diocese appeal to all Canadian Priests to pay off $7M loan.
DeleteIt is a true story and recent. Sandra B
Sandra B: I stand corrected... sort of. Getting appeals from Church organizations fill the postal box of any parish. No doubt I received what was I'm sure a professionally produced appeal, but like all the rest of its kind it was promptly.consigned to the St. Jude file...aka, the recycling box.
DeleteBut what was described was a personal appeal written by two priests who then mailed a copy 'to every priest in the country. That's far removed from from what I described above.
No, Father, you are far removed from a Priest who admits he made a mistake.
DeleteSounds more like a banker than a Catholic Priest to me.
Fr. Moyle - You sure get grief from your fellow Catholics. Again, if you'd like me to stop posting here, I will.
DeleteRationalist: No. Please continue. You, like any other civil and articulate person are most welcome to comment here. Your voice should not be silenced just because someone disagrees with what you write. Nothing you've ever written here would ever get me into any trouble. Besides all that, you understand the value of the Socratic method. The fruits of that technique of debate is far more substantial than what some of my 'fellow Catholics' think this blog is supposed to produce. So please continue to participate here to whatever degree you please and do not be concerned about any 'grief' that may come my way. I can take it! (grin)
DeleteFr. Tim
Thank you Fr, Tim. When you mentioned you got into trouble about Fred's funeral I thought things were touchy in your position.
DeleteSpeaking of Socrates. I introduced my son to the Socratic method by reading him Plato's Meno (What is the Good?))when he was 11. I did it with voices and he laughed uproariously. My wife couldn't believe what was amusing him so.
Hope your new parish is going well.
Rationalist: The new parishes are wonderful. Thanks for asking. This is the 3rd time I've served here, the 2nd time as pastor for Chapeau. The only hitch in the move involves my inability to locate my Kindle. Not having it at hand to read during the many quiet moments of my daily schedule is disorienting. I think I'm going through book withdrawal! If I don't soon find it, I'll have to replace it. It is a key component of my life in so many ways that it's something I can't easily do without. Thankfully all the books are archived with Amazon so if I don't find my old one I'll still have all my books and notes.
DeleteFr. Tim
I hate moves. One always loses the oddest things. Hope you find the reader soon. Sounds like a job for St. Anthony.
DeleteI was given an e-book reader (a Kobo Arc) in the spring and I love it. I can use it to borrow books from the library, both written and audio. On our vacation driving back from the East coast my wife wanted an audio book for us all to listen to. I stopped at MacDonalds (for a coffee, the only thing I'll consume there) and while waiting in line borrowed Robert Louis Stevenson's Kidnapped from the library as an audio book and we listened to it all the way home. We still love print books (close to 2000 in the house) but ebooks are so convienient.
For what it's worth here's Prof. Dawkins response to this controversy. ( http://www.richarddawkins.net/foundation_articles/2013/9/11/child-abuse-a-misunderstanding ) I don't agree with everything he says but he ends it with an apology.
ReplyDelete