tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post8615150064119656735..comments2024-01-01T21:57:26.021-05:00Comments on Where the Rubber Hits the Road: Sympathectomy of the Soul: From Joe Carter (First Things)Fr. Tim Moylehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18030197987469327645noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-45148402968885958842010-03-12T18:29:14.445-05:002010-03-12T18:29:14.445-05:00"I object even more strenuously to your lack ...<i>"I object even more strenuously to your lack of clarification on the issue."</i><br /><br />Always happy to oblige. What clarification do you need?<br /><br /><i>"it's not a question of dollars... it is a question of our <b>personal autonomy and sovereignty over our own life</b>. NO one should be mandated/burdened with the obligation to decide the fate of my life, save for God and me."</i><br /><br />Does that not also include the right to determine when to <i>end</i> that life? And the right to ask for help of a willing friend when it's not possible to carry out your wishes for yourself?Janus Bellatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05467165902363025714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-79918665007837456702010-03-12T13:24:21.255-05:002010-03-12T13:24:21.255-05:00Reddog: I deeply regret that you were dragged int...Reddog: I deeply regret that you were dragged into the situation you described. I can only state that the husband and attending physician were (in my understanding of the theology) wrong and violated the human rights of the woman. The Church has absolutely no problem with a person declining medical treatment whenever they reach the end stage of any disease (be that the medical capacity to restore health, or the mental/moral maintain the burden).<br /><br />It was also an abuse of the public purse - to sustain the life of someone who does not want to continue to fight the futile battle for extending life.<br /><br />But this is different from taking an action to deliberately permit/command another person to offer 'therapeutic nihilism' as a medical service.<br /><br />Surprise!!! I do care! But it's not a question of dollars... it is a question of our personal autonomy and sovereignty over our own life. NO one should be mandated/burdened with the obligation to decide the fate of my life, save for God and me.<br /><br />Fr. TimFr. Tim Moylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18030197987469327645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-73863257825773490662010-03-12T12:55:55.446-05:002010-03-12T12:55:55.446-05:00I was working nights, on the house, at a local com...I was working nights, on the house, at a local community hospital. A Catholic lady with end stage cancer was admitted to my ICU with orders for intubation and ventilator support in full code status. <br /><br />She had personally hand written and signed instructions in her chart that she didn't want to be intubated and sustained with ventilation or any heroic measures to sustain her life. At the time of admission she was alert and oriented and strenuously stated that she did not want intubation.<br /><br />I refused three times, the Catholic attending physicans's orders to intubate her and in my opinion, rightly so. Finally the attending came in and huddled with this lady's dickwad husband. He then proceeded to sedate her into insensibility, pronounced that she was unable to make an informed decision and demanded that we intubate, lacking that skill set himself, stating it was now the husband's decision to make.<br /><br />As soon as this lady came around, she pulled out the tube. We then were ordered to tie her down. She patiently worked on the knots until she was free and disintubated herself again.<br /><br />Over the next three weeks she disintubated herself countless times and continued, by writing, hand signals and verbally, whenever she pulled the tube, that she didn't want intubation. After three weeks she died, in agony, her throat bloody, raw meat, after undergoing more than one resucitative episode. Her many children, some quite young, were required by the father to watch the whole ordeal. The husband seemed proud of his efforts to continue and exacerbate his wife's suffering.<br /><br />The husband and attending lodged a complaint that I should be fired. I requested an ethics committee inquiry into why this Lady's advance directive was repeatedly ignored. Nothing was ever done on either count.<br /><br />There was never any hope for her to recover, having exhausted all of the oncologist's therapy. This lady had made her peace and was ready to go. What a nightmare.<br /><br />Not that you will care Tim or that it is even relevant but this lady's ICU bill ended up several hundred thousand dollars.reddoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15823251385710299262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-3652734032510021222010-03-12T11:45:46.950-05:002010-03-12T11:45:46.950-05:00("I object most strenuously to the continued ...("I object most strenuously to the continued erroneous eqivalence of assisted suicide with euthanasia.")<br /><br />I object even more strenuously to your lack of clarification on the issue.<br /><br />("Your ... religious and cultural values are not mine, and I take umbrage at the idea that you can be allowed to embed your own values into my life without so much as asking my views, never mind my permission! And I take great exception to the idea that you can accomplish this simply by applying pressure to MY political representatives!")<br /><br />I feel the same way. In fact the idea of finding myself in a hospital at the mercy of someone who may not respect my wishes about these things scares me. In fact the idea of my being disenfranchised because of my religious beliefs makes me more than a little nervous.<br /><br />But go ahead.. your right to never be confronted with views or ideas that disagree with yours trumps my right to participate in the political process in our country.Freyrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01706221683777453812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-89521119809246193252010-03-11T19:39:50.583-05:002010-03-11T19:39:50.583-05:00I object most strenuously to the continued erroneo...I object most strenuously to the continued erroneous eqivalence of assisted suicide with euthanasia. <br /><br />I object also to the idea that someone else's values must automatically be my own.<br /><br />Your (the universal, impersonal, and non-specific "you" -- a concept that is awkward at best, but regretably necessary for easier communication) religious and cultural values are not mine, and I take umbrage at the idea that you can be allowed to embed your own values into my life without so much as asking my views, never mind my permission! And I take great exception to the idea that you can accomplish this simply by applying pressure to MY political representatives!Janus Bellatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05467165902363025714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-83704244417424515802010-03-11T00:08:44.013-05:002010-03-11T00:08:44.013-05:00I have a lot of experience with the use of escalat...I have a lot of experience with the use of escalating dose morphine, oral, sub-q, and IV, in treatment of pain intensive, end stage illness. The only potentially lethal side effect is a tendency toward decreased respiration and the body adapts to that fairly quickly, at which point increased dosages can be safely continued, if necessary. Decreasing pain levels through the use of high dose opiates decreases vaso constriction and heart rate, which can prolong life greatly. <br /><br />I have rarely seen high dose morphine administration done in a way that could be responsible for death and in those instances, actuation of dosage administration was patient controlled.<br /><br />Where I live, assisted suicide is not legal. There is not much call for it in any case and usually the patient and doctor can work something out mutually satisfying within the boundaries of established medical practice.<br /><br />This would seem to be a case, where the Catholic Church is within it's place to preach whatever it wishes about end of life management. If members of the Church decide that they wish to deviate from the Churches teaching, that's up to them. <br /><br />If the Church, as with so many other issues, chooses to engage itself in the political arena to mandate civil penalties for violation of their made up, natural laws, they should be prepared for a backlash from the secular community. They should not confuse this with anti religious or anti Catholicism but simply freedom loving citizens fighting against despotism for their God given rights.reddoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15823251385710299262noreply@blogger.com