tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post1672745852340485061..comments2024-01-01T21:57:26.021-05:00Comments on Where the Rubber Hits the Road: The New Yorker front cover: Rick Santorum in a dog house on the roof of Mitt Romney's car - POLITICO.comFr. Tim Moylehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18030197987469327645noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-50698526876559512762012-03-08T16:38:36.760-05:002012-03-08T16:38:36.760-05:00Thank you Martin .Thank you Martin .Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-49405799921307003062012-03-08T16:32:13.630-05:002012-03-08T16:32:13.630-05:00Martin: Thank you. Well said.
TimMartin: Thank you. Well said.<br /><br />TimFr. Tim Moylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18030197987469327645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-82836986048056083322012-03-08T16:25:49.843-05:002012-03-08T16:25:49.843-05:00Hi L.J. Cornwall,
I will stand up and say that I ...Hi L.J. Cornwall,<br /><br />I will stand up and say that I knew both Tim and Steve when we were seminarians together many years ago. I have no reason to doubt that they are honourable men trying to do the best that they can. <br /><br />While I do not agree with them on many points (as you can see from my comments on this site), I don't think it is necessary to call their integrity into question just because I may disagree with them.<br /><br />I encourage everyone to join the discussions, but to keep our discussions focused on ideas, arguments and counter-arguments. There is no sin in disagreeing or being passionate in our disagreement, but let's leave personal attacks or insults out of it. I am not perfect on that score myself, I am simply suggesting we should all aim higher.<br /><br />Regards...MartinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-83124629617357661532012-03-08T16:09:51.200-05:002012-03-08T16:09:51.200-05:00LJ point to one place where I castigated anyone?LJ point to one place where I castigated anyone?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-34649407036666203572012-03-08T12:25:47.457-05:002012-03-08T12:25:47.457-05:00May God deliver us from the likes of these two pri...May God deliver us from the likes of these two priests . They post items to invite reply and controversy, then castigate the responders.<br />It is indeed noteworthy that so far no person who is not a priest has risen to their defense. They stand alone as teo abusive priests.<br />Today one complains that he does not like getting up in the morning and facing posts he does not agree with. Poor baby!<br />If these two are a fair representation of the priests of their Diocese, may God help their Diocese.L. J. Cornwallnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-55699594433662173602012-03-08T09:23:17.202-05:002012-03-08T09:23:17.202-05:00Marlene, where was I rude to you. I did suggest th...Marlene, where was I rude to you. I did suggest that you were being self-righteous, but that was only after YOU gloried in the fact that the 'two priests' were put in their place.........<br /><br />Btw I did notice how conveniently you bypassed legitimate questions during the course of which I thought would be mature debate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-81514228833904826512012-03-08T09:18:27.551-05:002012-03-08T09:18:27.551-05:00Where exactly did I enter into any analysis of the...Where exactly did I enter into any analysis of their faith life - I did call Obama a secularist, which by any standard is true.<br /><br />Romney called a conservative? Many would happily debate that!<br /><br />And then comes the predictable canard: 'inappropriate for their vocation'. Whenever some folks don't like debating with a priest or disagrees with one, that one is sure to appear! Father you are a poor example of a priest!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-31257339246759217162012-03-08T07:39:52.283-05:002012-03-08T07:39:52.283-05:00Bill: Glad you can comprehend what I quoted. Marle...Bill: Glad you can comprehend what I quoted. Marlene clearly is not. She is the one claiming that the Bible is to be taken literally - I guess in the original English that Jesus spoke!<br /><br />As to your last point... no, they didn't teach that in my social work degree. I learned about properly understanding scripture in my theology degree. In my BSW studies, I learned how to respond to warped, broken and sick personalities. It was a good preparation for dealing with comments like yours on this blog.<br /><br />Nice way to end your comment with a personal insult. It adds a great deal of credence and authenticity to your argument. Was that a skill you learned in school? I assume it was in elementary school given it uses insult in place of logic or argument. Were you able to eventually move on to high school or does this represent the pinnacle of your educational accomplishments?<br /><br />Fr. TimFr. Tim Moylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18030197987469327645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-47326347152433595082012-03-08T07:29:48.181-05:002012-03-08T07:29:48.181-05:00Marlene: I hope that venting your spleen made you ...Marlene: I hope that venting your spleen made you feel better. Then you can take some time and contemplate what actually happened here. You will find that you are the one who set the terms of our discussion. You're the one who came onto my blog and started hurling insults. If you think it inappropriate for a priest to defend himself in the face of an attack, then you have perverse view of the priesthood. Since you seem to hang around with Borne, that might be understandable although using him as a source of what's normative for priests is a bit perverse in itself.<br /><br />I hope our paths do cross! I'd love to meet you... that is if my empty schedule will allow it! Your contention that we are only busy once a year is proof positive that you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to comprehending the life and work of a priest.<br /><br />Fr. TimFr. Tim Moylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18030197987469327645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-61741311450497158862012-03-07T22:27:25.080-05:002012-03-07T22:27:25.080-05:00Father Ballard: The two of you have begun to very...Father Ballard: The two of you have begun to very insulting to me , and , I noticed, eventually to anyone who does not agree with you.<br />My father worked very hard at his job to be able to send me to College. The Diocese did not pay for it.<br />No one puts bread or meat on our table unless my husband goes to work at least 40 hours every week. We pay our taxes on the house we live in, and we try to raise our children to respect others.<br />You and Fr. Moyle are really bad examples compared to what the Priest-hood used to be.<br />And very few hours you work every week is a poor example.<br />Even Msgr. Borne said when I met him at a wake in Pembroke a few years ago, We Priests really do not have much to complain about. We really only have one busy time of the year , at Easter!<br />The rudeness with which you have responded to my posts prove how unworthy you both are to be called father. Good-bye ! If ever our paths cross, you will find out who I am.Marlenenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-16934245213631468792012-03-07T22:12:03.804-05:002012-03-07T22:12:03.804-05:00Fr. Moyle: I am sure you know even the Devil can ...Fr. Moyle: I am sure you know even the Devil can quote from the Bible, and do a better job than you just did.<br />Where does it say GOD approved of killing in the above quotes?<br />The first Commandment says, I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have other gods before me.<br />Does He say, I will kill you if you do?Did you read where Jesus made a mockery of all the 600-odd rules the Jews had? What did He say about the Apostles picking grain to eat on the Sabbath?<br />I guess they did not teach that in the Social Worker courses.Bill Barbernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-89031756157612768152012-03-07T21:24:07.715-05:002012-03-07T21:24:07.715-05:00Steven: Marlene isn't interested in the truth....Steven: Marlene isn't interested in the truth. She is only intent on spewing bile on people who don't agree with her Shirley Temple world view. Personally, I'm surprised that she's so bent out of shape over the 10 commandments when she has yet to demonstrate the ability to even count that high!!<br /><br />She demands a literal interpretation of scripture. I guess that means that she believes the the following people all deserve to die because the Bible prescribes the death penalty for the following activities, among others:<br /><br /> * Murder<br /> * Adultery (a crime that only a woman could commit)<br /> * Bestiality<br /> * Rape <br /> * Sodomy (so much for gay rights!)<br /> * One man picked up sticks on the Sabbath, he was taken into custody because a punishment was not known. Jehovah told Moses that the man in custody must be killed. This particular crime and punishment is an isolated case. <br /> * A betrothed woman who does not cry out while being raped<br /> * A woman who is found not to have been a virgin on the night of her wedding<br /> * Worshiping other gods<br /> * Witchcraft <br /> * Taking the LORD's name in vain or cursing his name<br /> * Cursing a parent<br /> * Kidnapping<br /><br />There must be a lot of blood flowing in her house!<br /><br />TimFr. Tim Moylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18030197987469327645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-9130636577737672222012-03-07T21:20:04.941-05:002012-03-07T21:20:04.941-05:00What is conventional about any war? Were the hist...What is conventional about any war? Were the history books you used at school so different than the ones we used in Guelp? I do not think so.<br />There is no doubt that OBL was asassinated, against the Geneva convention, and U S law.<br />You might parse all you want- it was still murder. And, it is not unlike the reigh of terror perpetrated by the Israelis through the murdering of people they call enemies of the state, which they have done in many countries throughout the World.Bill Barbernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-13004027427535796752012-03-07T19:49:59.335-05:002012-03-07T19:49:59.335-05:00Marlene, your remarks are jusssssstttttt a tad sel...Marlene, your remarks are jusssssstttttt a tad self-righteous. <br /><br />So a police officer or a group of officers coming under fire, in your world, should drop their guns, join arms and sing "we shall overcome"?<br /><br />Life is sometimes much more complicated than that. As I mentioned at least three times, this situation, involving THE leader of a evil warring faction is an exceptional situation and NOT the norm.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-58150540720456781402012-03-07T19:42:47.343-05:002012-03-07T19:42:47.343-05:00Hi Martin! I suppose we may need to agree to disag...Hi Martin! I suppose we may need to agree to disagree on this one.<br /><br />In my opinion, OBL was neither murdered or assassinated. As mentioned twice, this is an unconventional war requiring a different military engagement. OBL has never been in hiding making cupcakes. Without doubt, he was the coordinating force behind the terrorism which has been waged on the world. In the context of the compound in which he was found, a peaceful citizen's arrest was never going to happen, nor could the cooperation of the Pakistan government be relied upon. Storming the compound, as opposed to ignoring it was the only viable option and I am comfortable with the outcome. As mentioned, unique circumstances in an unconventional war. <br /><br />I don't think I can any more than that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-47661904139106173852012-03-07T19:07:20.007-05:002012-03-07T19:07:20.007-05:00Thanks
Martin for trying to put the 2 Priests str...Thanks <br />Martin for trying to put the 2 Priests straight on this.<br />When it comes to the Ten Commandments, or to moral law, we can not just make it up as we go along.<br />That is part of the trip some in the Catholic Church have been on for too long.<br />I was waiting to see the ELEVENTH Commandment which some think would say- Now do not take things I say literally- put your own interpretation on each of these. Signed, God !Marlenenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-39612267218478892122012-03-07T16:08:06.427-05:002012-03-07T16:08:06.427-05:00Hi Steve - if I parse your response carefully, you...Hi Steve - if I parse your response carefully, you seem to be saying that if OBL was assassinated, then it was a moral act. I hope I have not misrepresented you. If so, your rationale leaves me cold. While I agree that Pakistan could not be counted on to cooperate in good faith with OBL's capture (which probably justifies violating that country's sovereignty), it certainly does not justify assassination. I am not even sure St. Augutine's "just war" doctrine provides you with any real cover. OBL was not an immediate threat to the U.S. at the time of his death - in fact, he was for all practical purposes isolated and impotent.<br /><br />Hi Tim - sorry to bang on about "enemy combatants". It is a pet peeve of mine. I don't think you will find the phrase "enemy combatant" in the Geneva Convention. In any case, anyone not covered by the Geneva Convention is supposed to be subject to Article 3:<br /><br />"1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria. <br />... <br />(d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgement pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples. <br />... <br />The Parties to the conflict should further endeavour to bring into force, by means of special agreements, all or part of the other provisions of the present Convention."<br /><br />Seems pretty clear to me: if OBL was assassinated, then it was illegal. If it was moral, then I will leave it to Steve to explain to Marlene and the rest of us how this is possible. Again, are you using Natrual Law to justify assassintation, or Consequentialism, or plain old literal biblical proscription, or something else altogether?<br /><br />Cheers...MartinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-13209776349435174252012-03-07T07:35:59.697-05:002012-03-07T07:35:59.697-05:00I note, with a smile, that Marlene would not go ne...I note, with a smile, that Marlene would not go near my not so theoretical question of Israel's need for a defensive posture against Iran..........that seems to be skipped right over.<br /><br />Interesting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-19080387956502676612012-03-06T21:17:38.408-05:002012-03-06T21:17:38.408-05:00Marlene: I'm trying to decide if you're be...Marlene: I'm trying to decide if you're being dense or devilish with your comments. But let's play your silly game just so we can see how stupid your point is.<br /><br />OK... scripture has to be taken literally according to you. So, when was the last time you let your husband beat you for being insubordinate or lazy? When you were defiled with your menses each month, do you refrain from touch your husband so as not to make him impure? How many appendages have you lopped off because they led you into sin? Jesus told you do so you know. Don't you believe the words of Jesus?<br /><br />I have great respect for God's commandments... enough respect to study and learn what they actually say and mean. Clearly the depth of your understanding comes from watching Charlton Heston come down the mountain a couple of times. If this were not the case, you would not be posting such vapid and specious pap in lieu of intelligent comment or argument.<br /><br />Marlene, if you can't keep up with the conversation without grasping even simple concepts, you should refrain from joining in with your opinion. You would be well served to remain silent and thought to perhaps be an idiot that continue posting as you are and removing all doubt. <br /><br />Fr. Tim<br /><br />P.S. Before you start bleating like a wounded sheep at my pointing out how stupid and ignorant you really are, remember that it was you who began this conversation. What you think of as 'disgust' is most likely just a deep seated sense of inadequacy on your part.Fr. Tim Moylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18030197987469327645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-23937677622303985082012-03-06T20:29:00.551-05:002012-03-06T20:29:00.551-05:00Father, since when does the Geneva Convention, and...Father, since when does the Geneva Convention, and human history trump the Ten Commandments? I can not believe the scant regard you two pay to the Ten Commandments.<br />It is no wonder our Church is in such bad shape. The sexual abuses that are prevelant among clerg members is only a small sympton of a greater lacking- lacking of respect for God's Commandments<br />It is totally disgusting. There is no need to reply- it will just be more pap !Marlene Cookenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-1188799148140608772012-03-06T20:18:35.408-05:002012-03-06T20:18:35.408-05:00PS, I'm glad I wasn't asked about waterboa...PS, I'm glad I wasn't asked about waterboarding............:)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-49989116202165314332012-03-06T19:59:20.138-05:002012-03-06T19:59:20.138-05:00Martin, you have an interesting way of framing que...Martin, you have an interesting way of framing questions and drawing conclusions. In any case, as stated, I do not believe that the attempted capture or killing of OBL was immoral in anyway. I reiterate, the war being waged at present is a war on terror fought in a unconventional way. OBL was not a free man walking down the streets of Paris or Moscow. He was sequestered in a fortified camp, with the full knowledge and cooperation of our friends the Pakinstan government! Their cooperation in his capture was not a certainty by any means and it would appear that our trust In their government needs to be tempered.<br /><br />That OBL needed to be brought to justice is unquestioned. The options concerning how this would be done, limited. This is an exceptional case, for obvious reasons and I do not feel on any level that this conflicts with my pro-life views. It's not as if he was coming out of the womb, having its throat cut. Something that many democrats seem to believe is an acceptable moral choice. Talk about something that is contrary to 'natural law'!<br /><br />Cheers!<br /><br />Isn't it nice that Fr. Tim's blog allows contrary opinions to be posted unlike that of you know who!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-35694107987352082322012-03-06T19:39:55.756-05:002012-03-06T19:39:55.756-05:00....'some one breaks into your house WITH inte.......'some one breaks into your house WITH intent to kill your family....<br /><br />TimFr. Tim Moylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18030197987469327645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-26053009775851076422012-03-06T19:38:08.661-05:002012-03-06T19:38:08.661-05:00Martin: I use the term enemy combatant in the same...Martin: I use the term enemy combatant in the same sense it is used by the Geneva Conventions - not as the re-defined definition dreamed up by a couple of Bush regime lawyers. Remember that I am agree with what you previously stated. As busy as I have been these past few weeks even I wouldn't post diametrically opposed positions so quickly. I was just trying to answer Marlene's admittedly rhetorical question about the 'Thou Shalt Not Kill' commandment. I could have used the 'some one breaks into your house where intent to kill your family - can you kill him?' example. I was just trying to frame the question in a manner relevant to our current times.<br /><br />TimFr. Tim Moylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18030197987469327645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1926891106758008587.post-27145690361603123972012-03-06T18:58:05.604-05:002012-03-06T18:58:05.604-05:00It will be a tough race to re election for Preside...It will be a tough race to re election for President Obama. He may or may not succeed. I find Father Steve and Tim's comments dumbfounding, however.<br /><br />All of the candidates likely to feature in a general election, Obama, Santorum, Romney, Gingrich and Paul, have troubling inconsistencies in their stated personal faith lives. Obama, no more or less than any other. The attempts by the Fathers to make the conservative Romney and Gingrich, the reactionary Santorum, the libertarian Paul and the center left man of color, Obama's religious beliefs more or less acceptable to God, based on where they fall on a political spectrum, seem inappropriate for men of their vocation.<br /><br />What's up wit dat, Fathers?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com